Ep. 151 - How Quiz Marketing Unlocks Revenue Opportunities

Guest: Maxwell Nee, CRO at ScoreApp

Maxwell Nee, Chief Revenue Officer of ScoreApp, shares the strategies behind scaling a low ARR SaaS product to 9,000 paying customers worldwide. By leveraging the principles of quiz marketing, ScoreApp turns engagement into actionable insights, driving top-of-funnel lead generation, accelerating sales cycles, and refining customer experiences. 

The platform’s success stems from a relentless focus on understanding user needs before development, validating concepts with 3,000 prospects prior to launch, and building personalized, gamified experiences that deliver measurable value.

Maxwell’s perspective on SaaS growth is rooted in actionable principles: prioritize customer input, focus on enterprise value over personal branding, and invest in scalable systems. 

His advice for marketing leaders emphasizes clarity in messaging, the importance of simple, compelling copy, and always aligning content with the needs and emotions of the target audience.

Key Takeaways:

• Focus on Validation: ScoreApp validated its concept with 3,000 prospective users before launch, ensuring a strong product-market fit from the start.
• Personalization and Gamification Drive Results: Interactive quizzes generate higher engagement and conversion rates by combining self-discovery with actionable insights.
• Clarity Over Complexity: Simplifying messaging and focusing on the audience’s pain points can significantly boost engagement and lead generation.

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Transcript

[00:00:09] Ken: Welcome to SaaS backwards, a podcast that helps SaaS CEOs and go to market leaders, accelerate growth and enhance profitability. Our guest today is Maxwell Nee, CRO at ScoreApp, an AI enabled quiz marketing platform to attract warm leads, gain powerful insights and increase sales.

Maxwell, 

welcome to the podcast. 

[00:00:32] Maxwell: Thank you so much for having me, Ken. 

really

happy to be here. 

[00:00:34] Ken: Yeah, I'm excited to record your episode and, 

dig into, 

quiz marketing, but before we do so, could you please tell our listeners a little more about yourself and ScoreApp? 

[00:00:46] Maxwell: Yes. So, I would probably describe myself as a entrepreneur first, investor second, 

so I've had a few businesses that have done pretty well and exited one, 

so I invest just as much as I, you know, entrepreneur.

And, 

one of my angel investments, probably my best performing angel investment of all time, haven't done that many, but easily my favorite, 

my favorite child is, 

ScoreApp So I invested as an angel, 

just five years ago now, hasn't been that long. And then follow up again with two other investments because it was just going so well.

And, 

you know, now I've, I've taken a role in the team to help expand us into new regions, 

With my region being Asia Pacific, because I live in Singapore.

[00:01:31] Ken: That's, that's amazing. So this is a relatively small company, but with a global footprint, right? 

[00:01:36] Maxwell: Yeah, so we have, 

just, you know, I think 20 25 team members all up, including devs, including customer support. So pretty, pretty close nit And we have, 

just under 9, 000 paying clients, which is, which is fantastic.

And then, you know, we have another, 

close to 100, 000 on the email list with free accounts. 

[00:01:59] Ken: so this is a relatively low ARR product, right? 

what's 

the 

secret sauce here to make a product at a relatively affordable price point, a good business, because it's sometimes people struggle to, you know, really go these low ARR products.

And yet, 

every time I check in on ScoreApp the number of paying users seems to be going up, which says you guys are doing something really right. 

[00:02:25] Maxwell: Yeah, well, there's a few little pieces to answering that question, right? So the first piece is, you know, before the company, before a single line of code was written, you know, pitch check was made, branding was paid for, before anything was drawn up, there was the concept of ScoreApp that was direct messaged and asked for feedback and double checked with about 3, 000 people.

So my business partner, 

Daniel Priestley, one of the co founders, 

you know, famously messaged about 3, 000 people over, 

 more than a year to just double check that he was on the right track, right? So we had that to validate us straight out of the gate, plus we also had, 

about three, four people that had asked for this particular type of software before, 

but it was built for them bespoke, so it cost like six, eight weeks, $10, 000 type of thing, and then we thought, okay, well, if they're willing to pay for it, and we've double checked with these 

3, 000 people, and they said that that's a good idea, they, they want to pay for it, then, then we must have something that people would pay for.

 And then the next stage is, okay, well, how can we come out of the gate with as many users as possible? Because, you know, in the early days when you're selling something for, you know, our lowest cost product is like $39, right? $39 a month. The highest cost is $129. The first 500 clients don't even mean anything.

Because they're just barely scraping back the cost, you know. But once you get over that. Yeah, that sort of six figure, mid six figure range, then it starts to get really interesting, really fun, you have a lot more freedom, but, 

yeah, it was a hustle, you know, it was a hustle doing workshops, doing roadshows, 

you know, kicking the doors down, doing all the, all the old school stuff that I think people forget about.

Yeah, 

[00:04:14] Ken: I, I think a great kind of origin story. And, 

you know, it parallels some of the successes we've heard of other, 

software as a service companies, almost regardless of the price point, which is that the more you can, you know, inquire of your user base, your potential user base, the more feedback you can get before you make a big commitment, you know, the, the better the odds

of getting to a sustainable and then profitable business. So I think there's, there's a great takeaway for people early in the episode. So, 

thanks for that. I appreciate it. Maybe this would be a good time to tell us about, you know, how you came to join the ScoreApp team, you know, and, how you met up with, 

with your colleagues.

[00:05:01] Maxwell: Yes. I've been in the team so to speak since the beginning. So right at the beginning, 

I, I had a. A business coaching business that had about a thousand paying clients and every single client was a potential ideal client for ScoreApp you know, so ScoreApp works really well for anyone that sells anything digital.

So if you deliver your product or service through Zoom, 

it'll probably work well for you coaching, consulting, service providers, authors, thought leaders, 

consultants, and, 

last business had a thousand coaching clients, so I just basically brought them all over. I invested first obviously.

Then I brought them all over into ScoreApp and 

you know, wholeheartedly could recommend it because we were using it for our business at the time as well. So, it was just like this perfect alignment slash partnership slash synergy. 

without that alignment, I wouldn't have invested, you know, like, so when I look to put money to something like my money.

There's a lot more people with a lot more money than me, so my money doesn't mean anything in terms of how it could help a business grow. But if I have resources in my network, if I have connections at my fingertips that could mean a lot to a business, then, I'm a lot more inclined to want to invest and help accelerate that so that we could ideally create an unfair advantage, which I think is the ultimate goal.

[00:06:21] Ken: So that's a really interesting point that everybody's money is pretty much the same, right? So it's what do you bring to it? 

I want to go back to this prior business, this coaching business. 

a lot of revenue leaders, people, you know, CMO, CRO, head of sales. 

they look toward the path of being a fractional executive and it kind of sounds like that's not what you were doing with a thousand clients.

So yeah, could you just might be a little bit of a detour on our journey here, but could you sort of crack the window open on that a little bit and talk about what, What does a coaching business with a thousand clients look like and what are you actually delivering to those people? 

[00:07:00] Maxwell: Yeah, good question.

So the trick here is to productize your service. So coaching ultimately is a service, something where someone has to trade time for money. You know, it's not like I could just send out ebooks and, solve a solution for my potential clients. So, 

it first started off as an agency. That then evolved into a business coaching business where we would sell courses.

And the courses were very hands on. There was group coaching, one to one coaching, homework, pre recorded videos. You know, like a whole immersion in the topic that we were selling to people and helping them get better at and, 

we productize that into three variations. There was a 1, 000 range, the 5, 000 range, the 10, 000 range, and a mix of those, the vast majority straight down the middle.

A mix of those was sold to 1, 000 people over about three to four years. 

[00:07:56] Ken: That's, that's really great. So it's a combination of then courseware and some interactive sessions and allows you to scale your expertise.

It's definitely, this is definitely a detour, but is there a resource for people who are thinking fractionals for them to maybe dig deeper on, you know, building a coaching business in that model? 

[00:08:16] Maxwell: Look, what I would say is, 

let me tell you why I don't do that anymore. That's probably the better way to answer some of these questions.

So, you know, very transparently, why I don't do that anymore is, 

you know, the coaching consulting space. Yeah, you're selling digital products. It's great margins. You know, we had, I think we had 15 team members at an 81 percent profit margin. So just killing it, right? Doing a couple million bucks a year.

 But what I realized was that a lot of people were buying from us based on our personal brand, right? So we, the personal brand was so strong that we couldn't detach our personal brand from the business success, which means that, 

[00:09:00] Maxwell: I, I couldn't retire from this business because, you know, by definition I've got to show up my face.

So the way I describe it is that like, it's a bit like being in a band. You know, in a band, you've got the Beatles, and there's 1,2,3,4 of them. If one of them doesn't show up, they're not making any money that night, right? Cause they can't sing together, so it was like that. So there was 3 co founders, we were a band, we had to go there every Friday, Saturday night with our guitars, otherwise we didn't get paid.

And that got really old very quickly. And, 

that's also why I was very attracted to ScoreApp because I was like, you know, I want to be part of a business that builds real enterprise value, you know, like a machine rather than a personal brand cash cow, you know, like a, SaaS machine. So that, that's, you know, will explain a lot of my journey as well.

[00:09:49] Ken: That's a fabulous insight. And I'm sure there are. You know, listeners in the C suite considering, you know, how are they gonna step out of the 9 to 5 or the, you know, 8 to 8? And, 

you know, what are their possible paths? So I appreciate that little insight. let's go back to, you know, your, process of, of investing.

what, what do you look for as an angel investor? When we did our prep call, you mentioned a few levels of screening. I'd love to dig into that. 

because I, I think these same people who might consider becoming fractional, some of them, 

as I've met along the way also do investment. So what's your process look like?

[00:10:28] Maxwell: Yeah. So there's, there's a few things that I look for, right. 

you know, the, the really simple first thing that. Sounds very obvious, but isn't obvious to a lot of investors, is you got to do something that you understand. You know, so I always think to myself, the litmus test is, if I was given this business today, if everything went to shit, and I was given this business, could I pick it up and run with it?

Like, do I understand it that much to pick it up and maybe save the restaurant? Save the mechanic shop? Save the plumbing service? Could I save the business? And if the answer is yes, then I'm like, okay, well, I actually am investing with two eyes open, right? Like, I'm not just sort of wishing, I bet on the right horse in this whole AI thing that I don't understand how it works, right?

So there's that, and then there's a few other things like, 

the way to maximize enterprise value and to maximize an exit, because you know, when you put money into a company, ideally you want to take more money out of it when you exit. Is, 

you need three things. So the first thing is you need tech, right?

And most people in SaaS know and understand that. But you don't just need tech. You need tech that is in-house, that is owned by that company, that's what has enterprise value. That's how you get the crazy multiples, you know, 10 plus, 15 plus, 20 plus. You need something unique to that brand, that niche, that target audience, whatever.

That's a tech. The next thing, which is also very obvious. Sass people is, you know, you want recurring revenue, right? So you want revenue that you're able to forecast very, very clearly. You don't want revenue that's lumpy. You don't want revenue that has high concentration risk. You know, whilst we are only charging,

you know, starting at $29 a month for our clients, which means that we need a lot of them, 

which is very hard to do. We also have very, very little concentration risk because, you know, one client leaves, we still have 9, 000 to go type of thing. So, you want that, you want diversified income, you want repeatable income.

And then, you know, the last thing, which is the first, the first thing I should have said really, is you want to be able to walk into a team, spend a bit of time with them, and walk away smiling saying, Wow! This is an all star team. This is a team of 5, 10, 12, however many, 35 A players, right?

And, and I talk a lot about A players versus B players versus C players because I've been in a mixing bag of all three, where you have, say, five A players and one B player. And what happens is the B player drags everyone to perform at a B level. Because two people get frustrated, one person leaves, and you know, the other two just give up type of thing.

Because A players want to run fast, they want to run hard, they want to be remunerated, they want to be incentivized. And you have to remember, they could work anywhere. So if they're working for you, they're working in this startup, that's pretty special. You got to work out how to keep them. So tech, revenue, business model, and people.

[00:13:29] Ken: Makes a lot of sense. So it's, it sounds almost like Warren Buffett, you know, you got to understand the business and really like the executives, right? So maybe, maybe there's something to Mr. Buffett's method. 

 Do you have other investments and, and what do they look like? 

[00:13:46] Maxwell: Yeah, 

you know, I was reading this book called how to make a few billion dollars.

Which is obviously, obviously a very compelling, you know, everyone that I know that hasn't read it says, wow, I want to read that book. So it's, it's written by a $10 billion net worth entrepreneur who wasn't born like that. He's a US guy. His name's Brad Jacobs. And one of the things that he says in the book, which really stood out to me, he said, look, 

If you can get the megatrend right, you know, which is ultimately being at the right place at the right time, looking at the right whiteboard, then you could trip over and fail and still be ten times more right than if you were in the wrong place.

You know what I mean? Which is which is so true, you know, for in Australia, I know great entrepreneurs that work so hard, but they never get an exit, because they just weren't putting that amount of work channeled into Silicon Valley. But then you're in Silicon Valley, and you put 20 percent the amount of skill, effort, and grit and everything else and you can get a billion dollar exit or a hundred million dollar exit, right?

So right place, right time, right lane, right ecosystem, right environment, 

can do 90 percent of the heavy lifting for you. So that's what I look for. I'll share three industries that I'm in right now. The first one is in agriculture, you know, so I own part majority share for industrial hemp company. So we grow hemp seeds for plant based protein and everything else.

And that's like trucks, diesel, you know, water, like hardcore agriculture, you know, total opposite of tech. And then another one is FinTech. So, you know, I've got a horse that I bet on in the Web3 space, which is about, you know, decentralizing payments, helping banks pay and talk to each other using, the blockchain rather than using ledgers and data centers and everything else.

And then the last mega trend is renewable energy. So I'm also in a renewable energy company where we're making wind turbines that can be in 

urban areas, not just out in rural farms type of thing. 

[00:15:58] Ken: Yeah. Well, it's quite a, an array and it does sound like you're betting on a lot of great trends.

you know, I've, my early career, I built technology for Citibank and I've long said, I think blockchain is a, 

underappreciated asset in any kind of transaction communication scenario, right? Anytime you're you're trying to communicate about transactions seems like a great, a great underlying technology to reduce the likelihood of failure, if nothing else, right?

I mean, there's a lot of security and transparency opportunity, but also these systems have to work, right? The built in redundancy of the blockchain is great great tool to make sure that these systems don't fail 

so I want to turn our attention to 

The 

reason why for ScoreApp so can we 

do that here and, and start by talking about, you know, what are the best use cases for quiz marketing?

is it top of the funnel? 

you know, engagement with prospects, accelerating sales process. 

can you, can you talk through what the top two or three use cases really are for quiz marketing as a category? 

[00:17:06] Maxwell: Yeah, yeah. So I'll give you three examples. There's there's three areas that you use it really, really well.

The first area is top of the funnel. So that's newly generation. That's generating emails. Mobile numbers of your ideal clients, 

where you're using it as like a value exchange. So you're using it to deliver value to someone that they would otherwise pay for. 

So that, you know, they give you their contact information.

an example of this that most people would have seen is, you know, the body type quiz. You might see a personal trainer or a gym say, 

 Fill out this body type quiz and 

based on your frame, small, medium, or large, we will recommend perfect nutrition slash workout plan to help you hit your summer goals in half the time, right?

So that's compelling for a few reasons. It's personalized. 

it's instantaneous. And it also, 

gives you something that's gamified that you can engage with that entices like self discovery. So we all love self discovery. We all love identifying ourselves. If I find out that your score is 

90, 10, I want to know what mine is.

Yeah. I want to know, how do I rank? Am I more or less than 90. That's the first one. The first one is lead generation. The second one is bottom of funnel. So, it's in the sales process. It's basically the first 15 minutes of any sales call. The first 15 minutes of any sales call is exactly the same.

It's a needs analysis. It's, hey Mr Customer, let me identify what symptoms you have so that I could recommend the best solution. I could, I could laser in and zoom in on the problem that, 

that you've got in this particular part of your business or your life. And let me recommend the best solution.

So, we've all gone through this at the doctor. Hey, I'm sick. Okay. 

what's wrong? I don't know. Do your eyes hurt? Have you been coughing? Are you sneezing? Are you sleeping? Have you been drinking water? See, that's a needs analysis. The doctor is ticking off the symptoms to laser in onto the exact problem that I have so they can prescribe me the medicine.

That's number two. Needs analysis. Closing the sale. Number three is on the customer journey. So it's very simply just like a customer survey. So whenever you go to a hotel halfway through your stay at the end of your stay, they say, Oh, Ken, thank you so much for staying at the Hyatt. 

you know, would you mind filling out the survey?

We just want to make sure that, you know, 

we, ticking all the boxes so we haven't missed anything. We want to make sure, was the water hot in your room? Did the room service food come quickly? Did it come hot as well? You know, all those little things that only the customer can answer. So that's really, really important data to really like, sharpen the axe on refining your business, right?

Refining the nuts and bolts and the cracks and plugging all the gaps. So, 1, 2, and 3, that's 1,2,and 3. 

[00:20:02] Ken: So, why don't we, 

um, Take a look at things that, you know, I think revenue leaders really care about here. So they want to generate more initial opportunity, right? How can quiz marketing be constructed and promoted so that we can, you know, get people to engage with these assets.

And I'm, I'm teeing us up for what comes at the end of the episode here, so. 

[00:20:26] Maxwell: Yeah, well, why don't we just jump into that now?

Because that'll help, you know, because I love talking about real life examples. 

[00:20:31] Ken: For those of you, audio only, we're about to take a look at Austin Lawrence's Advertising Effectiveness ScoreApp And in the spirit of complete transparency, We've not done a great job with scorecard marketing.

you know, we don't get enough people to follow through here and, 

become potential clients, so we're going to tear down our own ScoreApp And see what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong. And, 

our goal is to get people to start taking a look at, 

their own advertising performance and trying to engage them so that we might have a chance to sell them advertising services.

So, Maxwell, why don't you take us through our ScoreApp 

and give us some feedback. That'd be fun. 

[00:21:19] Maxwell: Perfect. So I'll share with you some numbers, right? So, 

a very typical lead magnet, like a discount code, free ebook, 

a free call, free ticket to an event, something free. We'll typically convert about 10, 15%.

We completed two and a half million ScoreApps last year for our, more than 10, 000 clients that we've had come through last year and the average conversion rate was 30%. So, you know, that's a super broad wide range of the spectrum. So anyone, what I'm saying is anyone can achieve 30%.

Some people even achieve 50, 60%, but anyone can achieve 30%. Anyone can do that. Anyone but us. that's why we're here, right? So, I would guess this scorecard page 

just for those listening it's basically like a a one button page that says where is your advertising going off the rails? Take the scorecard.

So, a one button page, one, you know no diagrams, no images, literally just that text is very good because it tells us if something's not working, we know exactly what's not working. It's basically these words. It's this copywriting, these words aren't working, and this is very, very common. Any one that we see that has lower than 30% conversion rate, it's, it's pretty much just these words because these words are the only thing that is written on the tin.

You know, 

you buy a tin can of soup. It says pumpkin soup. That's very, very clear. That tells you exactly what's in the tin. So, the scorecard is telling people what's in the tin, but it's either something not, that they don't want, or it's something that just isn't that compelling or it's not packaged in a compelling way.

 Where I love to start with our clients is, you know, Ken tell me a bit more about your target audience? Like who is your, is it CROs in SaaS companies that are doing more than 10 million bucks a year? Or is it more or less specific than that? Who are they exactly? 

[00:23:19] Ken: So it's definitely the revenue leader, the SAS firm and they are You know, 10 to 50 million is our sweet spot.

So they're definitely, you know, funded or they're, you know, scale up. 

So that's exactly who they are. 

[00:23:34] Maxwell: Okay. And what do you help them with? Is it just advertising or is it, is there a bit more than that? 

[00:23:39] Ken: Well, our services are kind of holistic from, you know, messaging and go to market strategy. To how do we get people to, 

engage with the, the client and get into a sales process.

And depending on the ARR of the product, that's either a longer term proposition, enterprise sale, or in the case of something like ScoreApp you know, it's a pretty. pretty quick turnaround. Most of our clients are enterprise. And so our goal is to get engagement on thought, leadership assets, engage with, subject matter experts themselves at these organizations.

you know, if you're, you know, If your ARR is a million dollars, that's a relationship sale. So you're, you're not looking to get somebody to download an ebook, book a demo and buy, you know, you're trying to scale a problem agreement, solution awareness, instigating a decision kind of mountain, right?

That's the, that's the sales process. 

[00:24:47] Maxwell: Okay. And what's the measurement of success? Like, is it to lower the cost per acquisition? Is it to increase revenue? Is it, 

to, you know, what's that quantify, what's that number that they would look at to evaluate whether or not they renew with you for another year?

[00:25:06] Ken: I think the, the enterprise sale is very much about the enterprise engagement, right? So it's our people. Are they reading my email? Are they visiting my website? Are they going to my online or in real life events? Are they taking my call? The, the traditional measure of like, you know, S MQL, SQL, 

pretty well discredited among, you know, the.

People that are thoughtful in the SaaS space at the enterprise level. They're looking at this map of their ICP and they're saying, Hey, there's the three verticals I plan. There's, you know, 4, 000 entities that might ever buy and there's, these are the folks that I actually can service, you know, so there's maybe 3, 200 of those.

So they're looking at the measures of engagement for the marketing motions are, are just that they're not necessarily book a demo though, obviously everybody wants demos and we want them too, but they're. They're realizing that in a sales process, it could be nine to 36 months, depending on where someone is in their journey themselves, they've got to measure different things.

And, and that's, so that's really this engagement index, if you will. And, and advertising fits in that, in that what we want to do is put our best foot forward, get our messages in front of prospects that fit our ICP, you know, they fit our, they're really our serviceable addressable market and, and they would qualify if they have that problem.

So we're, we're out there sort of seeking people with which we can get to problem agreement with. I've got this problem and Hey, maybe you can help me fix it. 

and that problem could be, you know, all different kinds of things at that level, you know? 

[00:27:04] Maxwell: Yeah. Yeah. Okay Well, in everything you've said Ken and this is really common, right?

The way that you're speaking is almost like you've forgotten how much of an expert you are in this field you know, you're the way you're speaking the acronyms that you're using the intimacy in in the detail of the words that you're using is like you're a standard deviations into the expert field, 

which is good, but that's not how you want your marketing to communicate.

You know, you want your marketing to communicate that it's, 

lightweight, high level, and just big picture conceptualization. So. I'll give you an example. Instead of saying, you know, find out where your advertising is going off the rails because that's something of what you help people with , and that's where you focus on and you think that's the biggest pain point and everything else, 

What about something is zoomed out because you're really zoomed in.

What about something as zoomed out as, 

find out how much money you're leaving on the table in your go to market strategy, in your incomplete go to market strategy. And here's the top three areas that I found that, 

you know, businesses, 10 to 50 million leave money on the table because they haven't, you know, thought this through, or they haven't looked at this in a while, but that's it.

That's the title of the book and either, they're in the right audience that they want to read that

but, that's all that they're getting because they haven't opened the book yet. 

[00:28:32] Ken: Well, I kind of like that, right? Because it's more about the problem.

There's problem agreement potential there, and there's also, 

a little bit of prospect theory. 

the idea that what I might be losing is more, than what I might be gaining, right? So I care more about losses than my gains. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's great feedback. And, maybe we'll take that back into the lab and try another one and see if we can do a little bit better.

I think that's very aligned with, 

our own CROs thinking Jason Myers. He's definitely thinking along those lines. So we're going to give a run with that. 

[00:29:07] Maxwell: Yeah. Nice. Cool. Let me know how it goes. 

[00:29:10] Ken: I will. Well, that'll have to be a little follow up. We'll have to 

redo our ScoreApp. We'll do some marketing around it.

And then, 

certainly in some of our, 

podcast episodes, or maybe we'll do a. A little teardown of before and after. Show people what we what we might have learned. 

 This is a great place to land, Maxwell. 

do you want to, 

let people know how they can reach you and learn more about ScoreApp if they'd like to do that?

[00:29:34] Maxwell: Yes. 

So me personally, I am addicted to LinkedIn. So if you ever want to get me, that's probably the best place to get me. 

in terms of ScoreApp. We want to make it as easy as possible. So we have a freeway for you to use a platform. You don't even need to fill in your credit card, 

until you're using it and you're winning and you want to upgrade type of thing.

And I recommend that you just jump on and give it a go, you know, we've even integrated AI. So if you're really, really stuck with writing your own marketing campaign, writing your own copy, you could, 

prompt AI a few questions. 

answer a few questions that they'll ask you, and then our AI wizard will write six or seven hours of copywriting, plus a whole marketing campaign for you. Awesome. 

[00:30:16] Ken: Thanks so much. And if people want to reach me, I'm on LinkedIn/in/kenlempit. Our demand generation agency for software as a service businesses is Austin Lawrence. We're at austinlawrence.com. if you haven't subscribed to the podcast yet, perhaps this episode will push you over the top.

And you can subscribe to SaaS Backwards, wherever podcasts are distributed. Maxwell Nee. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

[00:30:42] Maxwell: Thank you so much for having me.